Comments on Advance Indiana™: CIB Officials Downplay Lucas Oil Stadium Funding Debacle

I don't think many of the people supported subsidi...

2008-08-11T09:42:00.000-05:00

I don't think many of the people supported subsidized socialization of sports funding.

As I recall, it was rammed down our throats.

They are also ramming down the property relief package which is not relief at all. They plan to screw us when they open up the Indiana Constitution and change the language to make it legal for them to do what they've been doing illegally to us for decades.

It's already August and supposedly property tax REPEAL is in a summer study session. Why haven't we heard anything?

I think the difference between Lucas Oil Stadium a...

2008-08-11T09:32:00.000-05:00

I think the difference between Lucas Oil Stadium and the Cleveland stadium is that in Cleveland the people approved public fuinancing for the stadium in a public referendum. By a better than 2 to 1 margin, in fact. That was never done here. It would never have succeeded here.

"The Colts negotiators must have thought we were t...

2008-08-10T18:40:00.000-05:00

"The Colts negotiators must have thought we were the biggest idiots around."

Uh-h-h-h...I think you meant "must have KNOWN we were the biggest idiots around."

People allow socialized sports because it (a) give...

2008-08-10T15:31:00.000-05:00

People allow socialized sports because it (a) gives them the opportunity to get the autograph of a famous quarterback or (b) allows them to brag to equally numbskulled folks in other cities that 'we pwned you in the last game.' The use of the word 'we' is important, because these fools are projecting their simple, pathetic lives onto the rich and famous stars of their chosen sport, themselves 'becoming' the rich and famous star for a few hours, a few weeks a year.

"That's because IRSAY gets all the money. Where ha...

2008-08-10T15:26:00.000-05:00

"That's because IRSAY gets all the money. Where have you been?"

Right here, for the past two years, saying the stadium is a raw deal for every taxpayer - while dozens of people kept spouting the standard lines about it's great economic impact. Great, yes, good, no.

Government perpetuates itself by always solving pr...

2008-08-10T14:04:00.000-05:00

Government perpetuates itself by always solving problems with solutions that are not really solutions. So, of course, either the problems persist or the "solutions" create new problems, which government proposes to solve with more half-baked solutions.
Government officials never want to concede that there are some problems that they can not solve.

So, in the downtown area, they have created a pyramid scheme that can only be maintained by successive subsidized projects designed to prop up, support and maintain the previous (and many times extended) subsidized businesses (Hoosier Dome, Convention Center, hotels, expanded convention center, hotels, mall, expanded convention center, hotels, new arena, hotels, new stadium, hotels, expanded convention center, hotels, etc.). It is all a house of cards that would eventually collapse without further subsidy. They know it, but won't admit it.

Of course, when government largess is made available, someone will always be available to take it, but willingness to participate in a pyramid scheme does not validate it as a viable or appropriate method of development.

Most pyramid schemes collapse. Unfortunately, government can levy additional taxes, borrow money and use all sort of financial voodoo to maintain the pyramid regardless of its long-term impact on the city’s core mission or viability.

Why the public never questions the role of sociali...

2008-08-10T11:03:00.000-05:00

Why the public never questions the role of socialized sports is beyond me.

I believe we are just now seeing the unrest that is to come. I am talking about a complete collapse of social disorder that this country has not seen since the riots of the 60s. Things will be much worse this time around. You see, no one really cares when _they_ are doing OK. No one cared about others making millions or even tens of millions on the backs of taxpayers when you could walk into a ton of union factory jobs, work over-time and make over $100K/year. That was back when decent homes were only $70K/year, cars were cheaper,...well, everything was cheaper. Half of my family is "rich" because of these sorts of jobs. However, most blew through their money buying junk. Then things started to change. The average person couldn't get the easy union job, but no bother, interest rates got cut big time, so now even if your only making $15/hr, as long as you have a pulse, you could get a 40 year interest only mortgage or some sort of ARM loan that allowed you to live like your parents did. So people did that. Now the credit well is tapped. The number of welfare leaches has grown so large, millions upon millions are required to feed, school, care, and house the poor.

The property tax protest was just the start. There are more, much more, things to come. Skyrocketing property crime rates (I know a lot of crimes are not even getting reported, because the cost to replace things are under the insurance deductible). Killings are going through the roof. People are demand more and more services. The elite have their hand in the public's bank account.

Look at our stadium/CC expansion. The performance auto parts convention..gone. Gencon, now in bankruptcy, who knows about future shows. The FFA is going to decide this year if they are going to stay in Indy, or go back to Louisville. Wonder which city can find the most money to pay off the FFA? You see, this is what this country has become: A nation of debt. As soon as the debt runs dry, and other nations figure we are a laughing stock, that is when the fireworks really begin. When our fiat money finally becomes worthless on a global scale. Debt and taxation has allowed for "private" companies to survive. It has allowed for the typical American to live like a king. The American empire is no different than the Roman empire or many others that have come and gone. The only question is when does the $#!t hit the fan?

Ok we have a surplus in the state government and D...

2008-08-10T08:49:00.000-05:00

Ok we have a surplus in the state government and Daniels dolled out all of the contracts. It's time for the gov to step up and bail the city out of this mess. Hmmm can we renegotiate the contract! Better yet someone should sue the city! ;)

roger61611, as you may not be aware, Mitch Daniel...

2008-08-10T07:59:00.000-05:00

roger61611, as you may not be aware, Mitch Daniels insisted on the control of the financing and constructiof of the stadium in exchange for aid from state funding.....you are naming the wrong culprits...start with Mitch Daniels.

"If, as we have been led to believe, the stadium i...

2008-08-10T07:52:00.000-05:00

"If, as we have been led to believe, the stadium is booked nearly every day of the year, and $7.7M is all we can net from that, we're screwed."

That's because IRSAY gets all the money. Where have you been?

Wilson46201 said... That horse has died! Stop flog...

2008-08-10T07:51:00.000-05:00

Wilson46201 said...
That horse has died! Stop flogging it!

Every stadium that is built on taxpayers' backs is...

2008-08-10T07:18:00.000-05:00

Every stadium that is built on taxpayers' backs is sold on a low figure, with the real-life figure only emerging mid-construction. The 'over-runs' here are no different than what was experienced in Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and a host of other NFL cities.

Why the public never questions the role of socialized sports is beyond me.

AI, our local folks who have negotiated these deal...

2008-08-09T23:40:00.000-05:00

AI, our local folks who have negotiated these deals over the years are lauded for what they've accomplished. But when you take a close look at the numbers, it wasn't hard to negotiate the deals. They basically gave everything away.

The Colts are a tenant in the new stadium. They didn't pay a dime for the stadium. Yet we gave them 1/2 of non football event revenue at the stadium? That is positively insane. The Colts negotiators must have thought we were the biggest idiots around.

It was a horrible deal. Everyone talks about the great ownership of the Colts. The minute the Colts start losing though, this city will want to run them out of town on a rail. They have royally screwed over the taxpayers. And let's not forget, this is the same organization which gave a total of $35,000 for victims of the Indy tornado and the state flooding. Real generous. (Sarcasm.)

Here's an idea...let the Colts make up the $20 million difference, perhaps by letting the
CIB keep the revenue from the non-football events as it should be. What do you want to bet the Colts will refuse to contribute a dime toward paying the $20 million operating deficit?

I don't know why we can't get straight, honest answers out of the CIB. We need a shakeup over there. The CIB needs to have some people on it who will ask tough questions and demand answers.

Fred Glass and Bob Bedell and Bart Peterson should...

2008-08-09T21:03:00.000-05:00

Fred Glass and Bob Bedell and Bart Peterson should be in prison.

If, as we have been led to believe, the stadium is...

2008-08-09T21:00:00.000-05:00

If, as we have been led to believe, the stadium is booked nearly every day of the year, and $7.7M is all we can net from that, we're screwed.

How could Mitch Daniels who insisted that the stat...

2008-08-09T18:23:00.000-05:00

How could Mitch Daniels who insisted that the state take over the construction and financing of Lucas Oil Stadium, let it get into this shape...this may be another reason that he needs to be replaced,