Comments on Advance Indiana™: 7th Circuit: "Be Happy, Not Gay" Is Not Derogatory Or Demeaning

Along with being "Gay & Happy", I've always though...

2008-04-25T13:29:00.000-05:00

Along with being "Gay & Happy", I've always thought the Indiana State House should consider sponsoring "Cross Dresser Fridays" for employees with another, more true side. It would cheer things up a bit over at the State House and the Governor did say there shall be no discrimination against the transgendered. I have a big place in my heart for their struggle to get to live true to themselves.
--Melyssa

It might be a relief for the teacher for the stude...

2008-04-25T08:16:00.000-05:00

It might be a relief for the teacher for the students to be silant in class for a change. :)

I have been a GSA advisor (have been a HS teacher ...

2008-04-24T17:59:00.000-05:00

I have been a GSA advisor (have been a HS teacher for 25 yrs) and have basically advised students that if they are going to participate in DOS, they should always be silent in social situations, but in the classroom, only if the teacher does not need them to speak. I do think, however,that the principal goes a bit too far when he says non-speaking students should be sent out of class. Why can't the teacher just apply his/her class participation policy?

Promote the gay lifestyle in schools but do not br...

2008-04-24T14:54:00.000-05:00

Promote the gay lifestyle in schools but do not bring religours views? Of course this is the way public schools are going these days. This is why the private schools are growing
Remeber the girl who got into trouble by saying "Oh that is so Gay" ? Its funny to read some of the titles of old movies back in the 60's where the word Gay was never thought of like today.

I have so many thoughts about this. First would b...

2008-04-24T12:45:00.000-05:00

I have so many thoughts about this. First would be that there is a separation of church and state that keeps the bible out of schools for a reason. As a gay man who is very spiritual I don't have any attachment to what the bible says about homosexuality. That is important. So many groups, like the shirt-makers, think that if they could only convince me of what the bible says I'll be straight. I don't want to be straight. I don't remember choosing to be gay and at 32, I don't suppose I'll be mulling that over now.

Secondly, the Christians at that school aren't being harrassed for being Christians. We aren't feeding them to the lions these days. That is the point of the event in question. They have tried to turn a tolerance event into an argument...and succeeded.

Also, the point about free speech in schools being different is valid. Students can't wear clothes with profanity, I would imagine. Where's the student group standing up for their "I fucking rock" shirt? This is also pretty close to racism. Suppose that Christian group were also KKK, because they do think themselves Christian. Could they wear shirts that said, "Be white, not black"?

Doubtful.

What would be the best, I would think, would be to have some responsible and skilled adults stage a dialogue between these groups. There is a huge opportunity for discussion and growth in this. We all have to live with each other. Why not let these kids talk about what it means to respect differences instead of telling them to just not talk about it?

This may disjointed. I apologize for that. It is a hot topic for me, though.

Thanks for covering these things!

Missscuri Democrat why is it okay for someone to s...

2008-04-24T12:32:00.000-05:00

Missscuri Democrat why is it okay for someone to say that people are born gay, but when someone says that the jury is out whether it's genetic or environmental, or a combination of both, that person is accused of pretending to be an "expert?" It's nice when you can have your cake and eat it too.

Your comment regarding christian conservatives is way out of line. I've never heard leaders of any leader of christian conservative groups trying to limit free speech because it's coming from someone who is gay. Christian conservatves can be accused of a lot of negative things but that isn't one of them. If anything christian conservative groups are extremely defensive of free speech and public religious practices, including non-christian practics.

First, public schools should not be propagandizing...

2008-04-24T11:39:00.000-05:00

First, public schools should not be propagandizing about gay rights or other political issues, period.

Second, people should have some self respect and stop indentifying themselves publically and politically by what kind of sex acts they practice. That should be none of anyone's business and making it public (let alone the sum, substance, and crux of one's public persona) is just plain bad manners and is the sign of a self absorbed boor.

Crude, evil spell check....above is suppose to rea...

2008-04-24T10:58:00.000-05:00

Crude, evil spell check....above is suppose to read...

As a right wing religious person who does NOT support many gay issue, I see no problem with the day of silence.

To my limited understanding, and I haven't read ev...

2008-04-24T10:56:00.000-05:00

To my limited understanding, and I haven't read everything about this event, is this a movement to end violence (verbal and physical) against people on the basis of their sexual orientation. As a right wing conserviate "crazy person", I see no problem with allowing the day of silence. I am against the be happy, not gay event soley because its asking people not to be themselves. Its not doing anthing positive in the sense of feeding the homeless, stop violence, etc. It is only there to promote and idea that many people will view as negative. The is nothing negative about wanting to stop abuse against gay people. Nor doe the day of silence promote being gay. So I see them as 2 totally different issue.

Now a right wing religous person who support a lot of gay rights issues, in this case, I see no problem. If, however, we allow a religous group to make statements of belief at school then what is to stop say Satanic groups from wearing tshirts that say "Jesus is a lie" or somethign like that. What is to stop Islamic extremist from saying Be Islamic not Crusaders.

Just my 2 cents.

Yeah, and the rightwing are doing their research t...

2008-04-24T09:27:00.000-05:00

Yeah, and the rightwing are doing their research too. A woman purporting to be a parent called yesterday to see if my school was participating. The principal is a dolt though and did not talk to me then. Instead they put out this policy statement to teachers today:

"Students participating in this event Friday at ____ may wear shirts or buttons regarding the event. Their posture will be to remain silent throughout the day. Last year there were a few students who did participate in this event; however, I was not aware of this event until this morning when an adult called me to ask if we were honoring the event. As a result of this phone call, I did some calling to determine the focus of this
day and its purpose.

Our official policy on this event on Friday, April 25th for the _______School Corporation is as follows:
Students who honor THE NATIONAL DAY OF SILENCE by maintaing a posture of silence may do so at anytime other than class time. Students in class are expected to participate as usual at the requrest of the teacher. Students who disrupt class by not cooperating in class when asked to speak or cooperate verbally should understand this policy and be given a second opportunity to cooperate. If inapropriate behavior continues that disrupts the class please send students to the office."

What do you think of that?

I love hetrosexuals who are experts on homosexuali...

2008-04-24T08:24:00.000-05:00

I love hetrosexuals who are experts on homosexuality. Wonder what the court would think about "Gay and Happy, join us!" I bet Eric Miller would have a field day with that wanting a Constitutional Amendment to prevent any Gay person from speaking in public and Bosma would intoduce it, Woody would sponsor it and design a license plate against Gay Speech with flags and crosses.

I'm not a lawyer - so some of this I can only weig...

2008-04-24T07:53:00.000-05:00

I'm not a lawyer - so some of this I can only weigh in on from a common sense perspective.

Freedom of speech isn't as free inside a school as outside. I'm not saying that is beneficial to the kids; just that the adults get all itchy when the kids comment like adults on questions of the day. That's why they fire student newspaper advisors when the kids write stuff about being gay, or about birth control, or about oral sex.

Since the schools do not allow all speech - I think they were right to try to ban this hurtful speech. But, in a perfect world I think the freedom of speech inside a school should be as free as outside and we should 'tolerate' the despicable ideas.

If I were a student, I'd get some shirts that rebutted these ones. I'm obviously not clever enough to twist the slogan, but a kid would be.

Well, I think the jury is still out on what causes...

2008-04-24T06:35:00.000-05:00

Well, I think the jury is still out on what causes sexual orientation. My guess is genetics and environment both play a role. I certainly don't buy it's simply a "choice."

Nonetheless, I still think that is irrelevant. It would still be regulating speech based on the content of that speech. We don't block the Klan from arguing for white supremacy even though non-whites have no choice over the color of their skin, they're born that way.

I'm not supporting the speech. I'm just saying it's a mighty slippery slope when you start banning speech based on the content of that speech.

Must have been republican judges

2008-04-24T05:34:00.000-05:00

Must have been republican judges

Unless you consider, Flynn, the possibility that a...

2008-04-24T04:40:00.000-05:00

Unless you consider, Flynn, the possibility that a person is born gay and has no control over their sexual orientation--just like a person has no control over the color of their skin. If you're gay and other students are walking around the school with the message on the T-shirt that you can't be happy because you're gay, it has a pretty stinging impact. Nobody would question that a similarly-worded message about a person's race would be considered fighting words.

Doesn't "tolerance" include tolerance for religiou...

2008-04-23T22:42:00.000-05:00

Doesn't "tolerance" include tolerance for religious view that might be different from yours? I don't know why a restriction on someone's speech about a political and religious issue, a restriction based on the notion that those views are disagreeable, is somehow a good thing or permitted by our Constitution. That's the whole idea of the Free Speech Clause...you can't prohibit speech based on the content of that speech.

Using the "fighting words" exception as some kind of blank check to ban speech that makes people uncomfortable or they may disagree would lead to a gutting of the Free Speech Clause. The great thing about our country is that people are allowed to speak on issues, even when the position stated isn't popular.

I haven't read the decision, but I can't fathom why it would even be necessary for the court to look at whether the phrase "Be Happy, Not Gay" is "derogatory" or "demeaning." Even if it was derogatory or demeaning, it should still be protected speech.