Comments on Advance Indiana™: Lawsuit Against City And NIFS Raises Questions About Off-Duty Security Work By City Police

#1: It is common that when men who are looking for...

2009-01-26T22:26:00.000-05:00

#1: It is common that when men who are looking for gay "sex" at a public place to develop signs and signals. Some guys are perfectly satisfied just seeing another guy naked. Thus they go to a private area, completely close themselves off, and do whatever it is they want to do in 100% complete privacy. Other guys might do something different, like leave stall doors open, shower curtains pulled less than 100%, etc.. Usually this is so another guy, looking for the same sexual satisfaction, can see the other guy. Kinda like "I'll show you mine if you show me yours!"
#2:IUPUI got very serious with this kind of activity at the natatorium. It seems to have moved to NIFS even though it is members only. However, I believe a person can pay a per day fee. Say the fee is $25, that is cheaper way to get in to see naked men than some other mediums.
#3:The cops would go as far as they legally can to get stats because NIFS wants this activity stopped. If the guy left the curtain open, he is guilty as far as I am concerned. Arguments can be made as to how much the curtain was open. I think once a federal jury hears the facts, this guy may end up with nothing. Sounds to me like if he left that curtain open, there was probable cause for an arrest. A lot of people think just because a judge let them off or the prosecutor's dropped the charges, that they were somehow wrongfully arrested. This would be a great case to go to the jury.
#4: It doesn't matter if a police officer is working on-duty, off-duty, or is off-duty just out and about. If an officer takes police action at anytime, the governmental unit will always be liable if something goes wrong. Courts have already ruled that in Indiana, a police officer is a police officer 24/7, regardless of the status of his/her time clock.

Jason,...I dont know what was or was not going on ...

2009-01-26T15:10:00.000-05:00

Jason,...I dont know what was or was not going on but I find your statement that "you find it hard to believe that a police office would just make something up" as being very naive....it has already been noted that letters were being placed in officers' personnel files for their work there. What more of an incentive does a officer need than to get a letter of compliment......

Well, in my experience the Plaintiff is going to d...

2009-01-26T04:07:00.000-05:00

Well, in my experience the Plaintiff is going to deny any and everything so that's more to be expected than believed. It brings to mind the Larry Craig "wide stance" defense.

At the same time I find it hard to believe that a police officer is either going to make something up or go peeking in shower stalls where he's not invited just to get a stat. There's plenty of shenanigans going on over there to where it's not all that difficult...

I wouldn't think the case itself would have anything to do with whether or not the officer was on duty, but if the Plaintiff is playing deep pocket theory it would definitely come into play.

Steve, The plaintiff alleges the undercover police...

2009-01-25T21:35:00.000-05:00

Steve, The plaintiff alleges the undercover police officer invaded his privacy through his actions.

I would be interested in other cases such as these...

2009-01-25T19:13:00.000-05:00

I would be interested in other cases such as these, it seems the legality as usual has been walked on a very fine line. I mean peeking in at people in a shower, is that not illegal in itself?

I should add, Jason, that the plaintiff does not c...

2009-01-25T16:40:00.000-05:00

I should add, Jason, that the plaintiff does not concede he was doing what the undercover police officer alleges he was doing.

I was confused too, Jason. NIFS never would give u...

2009-01-25T16:38:00.000-05:00

I was confused too, Jason. NIFS never would give up the names of the officers it hired for off-duty security work. It is claimed by the defendants that the officer who arrested him was working undercover and not as a security employee for NIFS at the time. It wasn't clear to me what the off-duty security officers did on the premises as opposed to the undercover police officers. NIFS acknowledged that the same officer who recommended off-duty officers accepted the request to provide undercover police officers to investigate the activity. The activity I heard about through the grapevine was that sex between men was taking place out in the open in the sauna and elsewhere in the locker room. All of the arrests I've read about involved the actions of a single man alone in a shower stall. This plaintiff wasn't alone in having his case dismissed. I also heard about a man from New York who was a visiting member of the Indianapolis Symphony getting arrested by this sting operation. He was given a guess pass by his hotel to visit NIFS and got busted in the shower when he used it. I'm told he was stunned that what he did behind a closed shower curtain could lead to his arrest. I think the sexual orientation and gender makes a difference. I've never heard of a woman getting busted for this sort of activity in a woman's locker room. I think women's sensibilities on these matters differ from some men.

Okay, I'm confused. Was the officer who made the ...

2009-01-25T16:20:00.000-05:00

Okay, I'm confused. Was the officer who made the arrest working for the city or NIFS at the time?

I see where you're coming from in saying that the city shouldn't be liable for damages if the officer in question isn't working for the city during the alleged incident, but they shouldn't and there are policies in place to ensure that doesn't happen. If it does it has more to do with the Plaintiff's lawyer than policies of IMPD or the city.

Part of community policing is responding to complaints from citizens and/or businesses. I've always heard of NIFS as having a reputation for this sort of behavior, and by calling it perverted I think it has more to do with the context in which it was taking place than the sexual orientation of the parties involved. The same people who complaint about men and men in the sauna would probably complain about men and women in the sauna as well. To try to paint himself as being subjugated because of his sexual orientation and not his behavior makes all homosexual people look bad. How would anybody even know he was gay if he wasn't doing these things on the premises?

I've never heard of NIFS offering free memberships for officers who work part-time, but it's certainly not unheard of. They offer discounts for many government and private sector employees based on who they work for, and also offer student discounts. At one point Brighthouse offered discounted cable packages instead of monetary compensation for officers. It's just bartering, IMHO.