Comments on Advance Indiana™: Did The CIB's Lawyers Get Too Clever With Herb Simon's $33.5 Million Gift?

Yes, a good find, AI. I am happy to contribute to...

2010-07-15T02:38:40.354-05:00

Yes, a good find, AI. I am happy to contribute to a law suit to try to stop this loan/gift to Herb Simon from Marion County, given to him by his friends, without the permission of the rest of us residents.

Guys, I'm of very average intelligence and I f...

2010-07-14T13:56:38.669-05:00

Guys, I'm of very average intelligence and I fought City Hall and won.

It helps to harness a whole lot of energy if you plan to win.

Since you asked- I think this is another obfuscate...

2010-07-14T11:22:23.268-05:00

Since you asked- I think this is another obfuscated, purposefully- convoluted piece of goverment excess, cloaked as an essential "standard" for any truly "cosmopolitan" city (on the road to fiscal hell).

And, I LIKE the Pacers.

But, if being "Naptown" means having a big Downtown hole in the ground because that's all we could afford, that sounds pretty good in hindsight.

If the Pacers, the Colts, the Convention Center, the Library, Wishard, Citizens, and a multi-sports stadium on the West side are all affordable- WHILE tax revenues, graduation rates, and school funding are on the skids, unemployment at 10%, borrowing billions as a nation, AND taxes going up next year - will someone please tell me what's now defined as "unaffordable"? Is there such a thing?

As I'm not an economist, it appears I must have gotten way, WAY off the trail somewhere.....

If the CIB's counsel is smart, he will simply ...

2010-07-14T11:07:52.622-05:00

If the CIB's counsel is smart, he will simply redo the language to refer to these "loans" as something like "retention payments" subject to clawbacks like you typically find in the economic development statutes.

AI, This is a great find.

2010-07-14T10:38:05.992-05:00

AI,

This is a great find.

Cato. I disagree. This issue could be a winner i...

2010-07-14T10:38:05.993-05:00

Cato.

I disagree. This issue could be a winner in the state appellate courts...maybe not so much at the trial level...but at the appeals level you would have a shot. I have a heck of a lot more faith in our state courts, especially appellate courts, than I do the federal courts.

You must not be familiar with Indiana courts. What...

2010-07-14T09:05:48.375-05:00

You must not be familiar with Indiana courts. Whatever the government wants, the government gets. Even the most explicit language means nothing to our courts.

Anyone who sues over this is wasting his time, since we know how the government wants this to come out.

The term "loan" is specifically referenc...

2010-07-14T08:32:41.383-05:00

The term "loan" is specifically referenced in the proposed lease amendment, UniGov. The loan is forgiven in its entirety if the Pacers stick the lease out; their repayment obligation is based on a sliding scale depending on if and when they exercise their right to terminate the lease.

It's a point I raised earlier, Pat. Councilor ...

2010-07-14T08:29:22.407-05:00

It's a point I raised earlier, Pat. Councilor Lutz made absolutely clear during last year's public hearing on the CIB bailout ordinance that it did not provide money to give to the Pacers as part of any lease renegotiation. The first $10 million loan is not included in this year's budget the council approved last year. I'm also curious if Ryan Vaughn will recuse himself from voting on approval of the loans as his managing partner did while he was president of the CIB on matters pertaining to the Pacers since his law firm represents the Simons.

Interesting point. The amendment also says that t...

2010-07-14T08:12:02.833-05:00

Interesting point.

The amendment also says that the 2nd and 3rd 'loans' will be contingent upon those expenditures being appropriated by the City-County Council. I have to wonder why the Council doesn't have to approve the movement of money around in the current CIB budget so that they can give the first 'loan' to the Pacers organization. That would be the case for any department in City or County government.

Ironically, the state constitution would have perm...

2010-07-14T07:38:04.843-05:00

Ironically, the state constitution would have permitted an outright gift of $30 million.

I have not seen a copy of the deal, is the word "loan" or something similar used, or is it expressed in terms that would normally describe a loan - such as, a payback schedule ?

The Indiana AG or State Board of Accounts could take a look at this but they are not much help.

I would add that the state and local governments g...

2010-07-14T07:18:11.120-05:00

I would add that the state and local governments give handouts to business all the time with clawback provisions if they don't meet certain conditions. I don't know why the CIB's lawyers didn't couch this subsidy in those same terms rather than treat it as a series of loans, other than the Pacers wanted it treated as a loan that would not count towards its "net cash flow."

If you read the press release, Indy Student, it ne...

2010-07-14T06:34:26.075-05:00

If you read the press release, Indy Student, it never refers to it as a loan. That's an argument the other side would make for it if there was a constitutional challenge. The constitution also contains a strict limit on how much debt a municipality can accumulate. The cities got around that by creating all of these separate municipal governments that operated separately but were still under their control. I think court decisions allowing them to do that failed miserably in interpreting the constitutional limitation. Note, however, that the CIB's appropriations are still made by the City-County government, which makes it the decision-maker.

I've heard the CIB occasionally refered to as ...

2010-07-14T06:27:31.930-05:00

I've heard the CIB occasionally refered to as a 'quasi-governmental organization.'

Maybe that's how they weasle out of it, by claiming to not be a strictly-governmental agency.

Paul Ogden said on his blog that the presser that ...

2010-07-13T23:58:46.117-05:00

Paul Ogden said on his blog that the presser that was hosted the other day referred to it as a loan multiple times.

I personally think those quoted sections make this whole idea of propping up sports teams unconstitutional, loan or no loan. But I'm not a lawyer. And didn't the concept of municipal corporations being separate from cities give them broad powers that cities don't have the option of, such as running a deficit?