Comments on Advance Indiana™: Bloomington Alternative And Daily Kos Ponder Lack Of Media Attention For Hall Killing

Ya know, I don't have an issue with Bil questionin...

2007-06-14T06:45:00.000-05:00

Ya know, I don't have an issue with Bil questioning if it's a hate crime or not. There is enough question of if it IS a hate crime, that isn't really even germane to the question of the lack of media coverage. It SHOULD be covered, but it's not.

I haven't been over to Expresso blog in a long time, but I'd seen and heard about folks no longer visiting it because of the lack of any kind of reasonable discourse.

With the national hate crimes bill in the Senate, and the defeat of it here locally, the Star (RiShawn especially) would have had to eat a lot of crow to talk about a possible hate crime.

His post about HR 1592 shows his total lack of understanding of the bill. "These acts are criminal and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law." Um, duh, but they are not. Chanelle Pickett's murder got 2 years in prison for stuffing a sheet down her throat. Estanislao Martinez got 4 years for stabbing Jose Robles 20 times with a pair of scissors. Many transgender murders don't even make it to court because the murders aren't important enough to spend valuable resources on to investigate. This bill would change that.

Of course, what do I know? I mean I've written extensively about HR 1592 (now S. 1105) and lobbied for it in Congress, but I'm sure RiShawn's in-depth analysis goes much deeper than anything I've done.

And Ruth Holladay wonders why the Star is dying a slow death? I think the answer is obvious.

Yes.

2007-06-13T20:00:00.000-05:00

Yes.

So it was the intent to kill a fag that is the tri...

2007-06-13T19:58:00.000-05:00

So it was the intent to kill a fag that is the trigger for a hate crime as opposed to killing somebody that later may turn out to have been gay?

In other words, gayness or the perception of gayness have to be the determining factor in the hate crime?

"In 1993, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled unanimously...

2007-06-13T19:31:00.000-05:00

"In 1993, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled unanimously that hate-crime laws based on intent are constitutional. In his decision, Chief Justice William Rehnquist specifically noted that judges have traditionally been allowed to consider the motivation of defendants when imposing sentences. Rehnquist said that hate crimes inflict distinct emotional harm on their victims and can trigger social instability."

In the case at hand, you have two accused killers who say they were compelled to slowly beat him to death over a several hour period, strip him naked, dump him in a ditch along a secluded farm lane and leave him for dead. They explain their actions based on a sexual advance the victim made towards one of the accused. The law is permitted to make a distinction between this killing and one where, let's say, two men get into a fight in a bar over a card game and one man gets killed as a result of that fight. In both cases, the killers are guilty of committing the crime of taking another man's life. The question become the degree of guilt for purposes of sentencing. The hate crimes law allows a judge to assign a greater degree of guilt to a person who beats and kills someone because of their sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, etc. than it would in case where the beating and killing was precipitated by a dispute over a card game. Similarly, the law already allows a greater degree of guilt be assigned to you if you kill someone while committing another felony, such as robbing a gas station, or if you kill a police officer, among others. Hate crimes, as Justice Rehnquist explained, "inflict distinct emotional harm on their victims and can trigger social instability."

Since AI is an attorney, why dont you explain prec...

2007-06-13T19:10:00.000-05:00

Since AI is an attorney, why dont you explain precisely to us non-lawyers why this awful crime would be prosecutable under a generic "hate crimes" law (which we dont have in Indiana)?

Crothersville is near Louisville - has the Courier-Journal also buried this story? Both the Star and the C-J are Gannett-owned -- I'm sure the papers have a news-sharing agreement. Since gory crime stories seem so popular currently in Indianapolis (at least until November 2007), perhaps the Star could at least carry the Aaron Hall killing info...

Let's chill on the Bil Browning bashing please -- personal attacks wont help us here!

What the hell is Bil Browning doing? First the stu...

2007-06-13T19:06:00.000-05:00

What the hell is Bil Browning doing? First the stupid protest in front of Speaker Bauer's office that got him fired and now this. Whose side is he on?

Keep us the great work you're doing here keeping u...

2007-06-13T16:08:00.000-05:00

Keep us the great work you're doing here keeping us informed on this story, AI. Bilerico is too busy tracking down stories about Paris Hilton and American Idol wannabes to bother with an important story like this in its own backyard. I saw the Bil Browning post at Bilerico. "It's not a hate crime!" What drug is that boy on?

I agree with Gary on this one. Thanks for yet agai...

2007-06-13T09:59:00.000-05:00

I agree with Gary on this one. Thanks for yet again doing the job of the Indy Star, Gary.

Thanks for sharing, RiShawn.

2007-06-13T09:24:00.000-05:00

Thanks for sharing, RiShawn.

As I said, you'll never admit your error - no matt...

2007-06-13T08:50:00.000-05:00

As I said, you'll never admit your error - no matter how obvious it becomes.

Interesting how this comment relates so well to your earliest posts on this terrible situation:

"The only speculation comes from folks with no first hand knowledge of the case...."

And just for the record, my post has absolutely nothing to do with Matthew Shepard. Unlike you, I am quite willing to admit that I know nothing about that case and, therefore, I will not post on it. My comments have been and continue to be directed solely at YOUR reactions/postings to the Hall murder. And all one needs to do is read your own posts to see how flawed and contradictory you have been and to see a great example of why your advocacy for "hate crimes" legislation is also miserably flawed.

Sorry, anon 10:15, but there is no error in my ear...

2007-06-12T22:34:00.000-05:00

Sorry, anon 10:15, but there is no error in my earlier posts. There was no speculation on anyone's part other than anonymous nobodies like yourself who are too gutless to identify themselves. The accused implicated themselves with their own words of committing a hate crime. The only speculation comes from folks with no first hand knowledge of the case who claim that Hall's killers made up the story. As this post notes, Matthew Shepard's killers did the exact same thing. They first used the "gay panic" defense until they figured out the judge wasn't going to allow it. They then they tried to explain their actions as a theft gone bad. Based upon your flawed logic, the killing of Matthew Shepard wasn't a hate crime either.

Agree with 4:25. Nonetheless, I must (again) poin...

2007-06-12T22:15:00.000-05:00

Agree with 4:25.

Nonetheless, I must (again) point out the error of your earlier posts in suggesting that this was a clear example of a hate crime. Most reports, as you now report yourself, suggest that any homosexual involvement was all a bunch bunk.

Yet, you were pretty darned quick to hoist the "hate crime" accusation. I doubt you'll ever admit even the underlying error, but that error is a great example of why "hate crimes" legislation is so flawed. It calls for far too much speculation, most of which can never be proven.

This is a sad case, and there are no winners, Gary...

2007-06-12T16:25:00.000-05:00

This is a sad case, and there are no winners, Gary. All losers.

Including the system, which allowed the county coroner to remain involved in this case, altho his chief deputy's son was one of the suspects.