Comments on Advance Indiana™: Chambliss Coasts To Victory Over Martin In Georgia

Mr. Ogden:David claimed that 'more republicans vot...

2008-12-06T14:19:00.000-05:00

Mr. Ogden:

David claimed that 'more republicans voted for the civil rights act than did democrats'. I pointed out that his claim was incorrect, as it is. Indeed, numbers count - legislation is passed by a majority of members, and a majority of BOTH parties voted for the legislation. Opposition was mainly from the South, then largely represented by Democrats. A regional breakdown:

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7%-93%)
Southern Republicans: 0-10(0%-100%)
Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94%-6%)
Northern Republicans: 138-24(85%-15%)

The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5%-95%)
Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0%-100%)
Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98%-2%)

Note that Southern Republicans unanimously opposed the measure, and Goldwater rose in prominence due to his opposition. Southern Dems. were nonetheless blamed by southern whites for the measure, which the National Democratic party was responsible for. The legislation was the major factor leading to the realignment which resulted in Republican success in the South. A number of REPUBLICAN lawmakers opposed wholesale renewal of the Voting Rights Act in 2006, many arguing that its main enforcement provision be removed.

Kennedy introduced the bill in his civil rights speech on June 11, 1963, and sent it to Congress on June 19.

Kennedy also voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1957. Strom Thurmond, then Dixiecrat and soon thereafter celebrated Republican, led the longest filibuster in history in opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1957. The eventual law was watered down and ineffectual, but led the way to the 1964 Act.

I acknowledge the emabrassing legacy of support for Jim Crow among Southern Democrats, but am proud that the Party is also responsible for eventually dismantling Crow. The party of racial equality since the subsequent realignment is the Democratic Party.

Wow, IndyPaul, could you be more disingenous? The...

2008-12-05T00:35:00.000-05:00

Wow, IndyPaul, could you be more disingenous? The fact is Republicans supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act of 1965 in much higher percentages than Democrats did. That is the only measure that counts.

Kennedy did not "introduce" the civil rights bill in Congress. He was President, not a member of Congress. Kennedy, when it came to civil rights, was not interested in doing anything. Kennedy had opposed the Civil Rights act of 1957 and a federal anti-lynching law. Johnson deserves the credit. He's the one who did the heavy lifting to get it through with Republican support.

The fact is, IndyPaul, the Dems, anyway you slice it, have an embarassing racial legacy of supporting segregation and Jim Crow laws. Republicans never supported those laws. I know facts are inconvenient things, but a little more intellectual honest on your part would be appreciated.

"more republicans voted for the civil rights act t...

2008-12-03T15:24:00.000-05:00

"more republicans voted for the civil rights act than did democrats."

That is incorrect. Here's the breakdown by party, from wikipedia:

The Senate version:[9]

Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%-31%)
Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)
The Senate version, voted on by the House:[9]

Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%)
Republican Party: 136-35 (80%-20%)

While a greater percentage of Republicans voted for the bill, there were large Democratic majorities in both Houses, and more Democrats than Republicans voted for it. Moreover, Democratic leaders visibly and forcefully advocated for the bill, including Kennedy, who introduced the original measure, the chairman of the House Judiciary committe, who strengthened it, Johnson, who used his legislative background to help get it through, and Humphrey, the Senate manager of the bill. Of course Johnson signed it stating 'we have lost the South for a generation.' This turned out to be an understatement. The GOP then nominated Goldwater, one of the Act's most vocal opponents, in 1964. Goldwater won only Arizona and five of the Deep South states, two of which (Alabama and Mississippi) had not voted Republican since the disputed presidential election of 1876. Nixon's "southern strategy" successfully stoked racial additutes and gained the former voters of George Wallace.

Since then the GOP has become more conservative, anathema to blacks and other minorities, and arguably a regional party, with its major strengths in the south and plains.

Those caliber of republicans who supported the civ...

2008-12-03T14:03:00.000-05:00

Those caliber of republicans who supported the civil rights movement have long been driven from the GOP by the right wingnuts who have taken over the party. Those southern Dems who opposed civil rights have long switched to the GOP.....the realignment makes your statement baseless, David.

Oh, and it really doesn't matter how many Republic...

2008-12-03T09:43:00.000-05:00

Oh, and it really doesn't matter how many Republicans squirm into the senate at the 11th hour.

All it takes is a simple majority vote to change the rules for this senate session, so 50 Senators and Joe Biden's tie breaking vote could vote to remove the filibuster, if it came down to that.

The Democrats have 58 senators under their own flag, they could do it themselves if the Republicans became too obstinate.

Perhaps, but Georgia is relatively uneducated, rur...

2008-12-03T09:14:00.000-05:00

Perhaps, but Georgia is relatively uneducated, rural, and evangelical, it fits every demographic that laps up the Republican line like antifreeze at a petting zoo.

Anecdotally, I was on the phone with my uncle yesterday, who lives in Forsyth County, Georgia. I asked him if I had his correct address, and he said "Oh no, that's where we lived before they put in 911 service" I said "1982!?", "No, last year".

Forsyth, if you remember, at least they did when I was there in 1992, had an official sign on the roads into town that read "N-----, your black --- better not be out after the sun goes down!"

I remember asking my mom (I was 8 years old) why they would say something that horrible, and she said "Because Georgia hasn't caught up with the rest of the country"

Anyway, that is why I know for a fact that the white supremacists and the homophobes are still alive and well and voting down there, and why the rest of the country had better keep a close eye on them. (Voting Right Act/Civil Rights Act)

They keep saying, "Oh, you can trust us now, that was a long time ago!"....bullshit!

It may not be AS BAD if you stay in major cities, but once you're out in the styx, look out.

It's strange you would make a comment about the eq...

2008-12-03T09:03:00.000-05:00

It's strange you would make a comment about the equal rights of the 60's when more republicans voted for the civil rights act than did democrats.

But yes let's shut down all debate by lowering it to petty name calling. That really helps this country.

Perhaps a lot of those white people you so easily ...

2008-12-03T08:54:00.000-05:00

Perhaps a lot of those white people you so easily describe as racists are more than fed up with the racism the Democratic Party promotes among African-Americans towards white Americans. The blatant racism practiced by many Democratic African-American elected officials in this country is spine-chilling.

I'll just leave the comment from my friend in Geor...

2008-12-03T08:48:00.000-05:00

I'll just leave the comment from my friend in Georgia:

"Nothing good has ever come from Georgia, it is a major hicksville, and I plan on leaving here within the next year anyway."

What's interesting is that Georgia was one of the 6 states that used to vote Democrat until the Democrats were staunch supporters of equal rights (mid 1960s), then the pro-segregation asshole, George Wallace and a bunch of other renegade southern Democrats broke off and formed the Dixiecrat faction.

Those 6 states were won by the Dixiecrat faction until that faction fell apart and then they started voting Republican.

It makes sense I suppose, the Republicans dislike all minorities, so does a lot of the population of the south, for political expedience they ignore black people and hispanics in their party line of hate but don't mistake that for a loving embrace, just a cold tolerance, a "we'll get back to dealing with you later".

They explicitly target gays with hate speech in the party line, albeit sugar coated, and I'm sorry to say that a few of us have been duped into voting for them, I just never figured that 3 in 10 were either so stupid or so rich, or both, either way, I think the last guy that did the job got 30 pieces of silver.

But back to Georgia....Georgia is one of the states that is still singled out in the Voting Rights Act of 1965, which the "pre-clearance" section was last renewed in 2006, so obviously the popular opinion of those states is that they are still so hostile towards minorities, that their voting practices still need to be cleared by the Department of Justice in every election.

And it does not surprise me any that Georgia went for Saxby Chambliss with such a wide margin...without Barack Obama on the ticket, most black voters didn't bother showing up, and then the Republicans shifted their hate machine into full gear and got such radicals as Sarah Palin and John McCain back down there to scare all the white supremacists and homophobes that, basically, our pure race was under attack by the liberal left, or something.

Not that this idiot Chambliss matters much, even if Franken loses, the Democrats have 58+2 Republicans from Maine that may as well be Democrats+Dick Lugar (Who I adore), plus several other swing votes, so it's not like Mitch McConnell will keep his party in anything resembling lock step,

Saxby was a pyrrhic victory, this won't slow down Barack Obama, and t sure as hell won't stop him.

They just proved that with a truckload of money and an appearance by every GOP all-star, that they can win an election in......Georgia.

Not sure if that's something for the GOP to brag about, considering they lost a couple of Congress Critters from there too this year.