Comments on Advance Indiana™: She's Not A Libertarian, But She Could Be

Regarding previous comments about the 2004 Horning...

2009-07-26T08:33:37.517-05:00

Regarding previous comments about the 2004 Horning Republican Campaign (7th District).

I first met Liz Karlson at a fundraiser for Andy Horning in 2004 when he was running as a Republican.

Chris Spangle was very active in Andy Horning's 2004 Republican Campaign and he, and additional volunteers he brought, spent time helping on days where he could have been getting paid by another campaign.

While most people associated with that campaign are not proud of how it may have been conducted (on a total of $25,000 against Julia Carson's hundreds of thousands) and the lack of commitment from GOP leadership; I know many of us are proud to have been, and continue to be, his friend.

For what it is worth, Andy came within .5 to 1% of Broze McVey's percentage of vote total. $25,000 (about 25 cents per vote) versus McVey's $1.2 million (about $21.00 a vote if memory serves). McVey ran in an off-year (2002), Andy was a highly contested Presidential year and the district, as Gary and Paul Ogden often point out in their BLOGs is heavily Democrat.

I know the GOP leadership took issue back in 2008 with Ms. Karlson's friendship and support of Steve Keltner; but, it is worth noting that she contributed to his party switch or has at least helped introduce him around as he joined the Republican Party.

Art, It's similiar to an at-will employee. Ye...

2009-07-26T08:21:26.931-05:00

Art,

It's similiar to an at-will employee. Yes, the general rule is that they can be fired for any reason. However, if the firing is for one of the few reasons that is improper, then no they can't be fired.

If you think it's okay for the county chairman to fire ward chairman for not supporting the chairman's choice in a caucus, I assure you you are very much mistaken. Even Tom John and David Brooks aren't taking that position. They're claiming the firing had nothing to do with the WCs supporting someone else. They know it would be improper for them to have fired the WCs for supporting Schneider.

READ again closely.....ward chairs are appointed b...

2009-07-25T22:21:46.971-05:00

READ again closely.....ward chairs are appointed by the county chair and can be replace by the county chair at any time...no reason is needed......elected PCs cannot be fired although there is a hearing process where they can be accused of disloyalty to the party and have a hearing. I dont dispute the inability to fire PCs but ward chairs are a whole different story.

Perry's an insider wannabe. He doesn't re...

2009-07-25T21:01:43.578-05:00

Perry's an insider wannabe. He doesn't remain friends because he betrays them.

He doesn't have it together enough to even buy a home for his family, yet calls himself an "adult" and his political enemies, who are far more accomplished, "children".

He desperately wants to please the self-serving political scum that use him to do their dirty work and believes they are his "friends". Perry happily laps up whatever slop they give him, while he brands himself as a Christian.

When you read his words, do you think Christian?

Perry betrayed every principled person I know with whom he once associated.

And now the scum, he so desperately tries to please, are going to use him, then kick him to the curb.

Watch.

Donaghy, since you missed it the first time, let m...

2009-07-25T18:53:10.426-05:00

Donaghy, since you missed it the first time, let me spell it out for you:

You fell for a con. You've been had.

Beyond that, my relationship with my parents isn't anymore your business than your relationship with yours would be my business.

Nor is my relationship with Andy, or really anyone else. My attendance at some public function means nothing, though for someone like you who relies on public displays for your entire being, it probably would. Some of us keep things in private.

I must confess your obsession with me is rather bizarre, though it may be just another manifestation of your creepiness.

Ogden, If not supporting the Chair's hand-picked candidate were grounds for removal, lots of people would be gone. You may have noticed that quite a few people voted for Schneider.

But if that were the sole reasoning for this move, why has it been in the works for some weeks now? Riddle me that one, mister political expert?

Jacob, where do you live now? Are you a property ...

2009-07-25T17:52:44.224-05:00

Jacob, where do you live now? Are you a property owner? Are you finally able to put a roof over the heads of your family without living off your relatives?

You may have moved out in 93, but you moved back in.

And while I was not involved in Andy's campaign, I don't see you hanging out with Andy today. Why is that?

Since you and Andy are so tight, then why weren't you there with the rest of his friends to say goodbye a few weeks ago?

Jacob, So what you've just said is that it...

2009-07-25T17:44:46.550-05:00

Jacob,

So what you've just said is that it's okay to terminate a ward chairman for not supporting who the leadership wants at a party caucus.

Your honor, I'd like to rest my case.

Game, set, match.

This kerfuffle may have less to do with the SD30 v...

2009-07-25T17:43:54.575-05:00

This kerfuffle may have less to do with the SD30 vote and much more about the forthcoming CIB Bailout vote in the City-County Council. Getting those recalcitrant GOP votes may require massive arm-twisting and "muscle" to pull it off. Sometimes a County Chair has to demonstrate some power to "whip" the needed votes from reluctant Republican Councilors...

Oh, and to follow up on something else mentioned, ...

2009-07-25T16:37:22.162-05:00

Oh, and to follow up on something else mentioned, it was me, and me alone who recruited Andy Horning into the GOP, though it was obviously Andy who made the final decision when the deal was presented to him. I was the one who made the initial contacts on his behalf, went to the meetings with him, and was around for the aftermath.

And while it's certainly true that the party failed to live up to most of the promises made to him (particularly "Furniture Man", the esteemed former chair), it's just as accurate that Andy didn't live up to his end of the bargain either. it would also be accurate that neither Ms. Donaghy, Mr. Ogden or Mrs. Karlson were actively involved in that 2004 campaign, nor was Mr. Spangle, aside from attending a public forum or two.

But I do so enjoy reading comments from people who weren't even around when all of this went down and who've never spoken to me about the events that took place, though many of the stories that've since surfaced are quite entertaining.

While its possibly true that Liz might've had something to do with Steve Keltner's return to the GOP, it's also true that the effort began in earnest when I met with Steve last summer in a meeting set up by Tim Maguire. It was I who then put Steve with people like my friends Mike Delph and Robb Greene, who helped seal the deal. Liz wasn't in attendance for those discussions as far as I'm aware.

Donaghy, I moved out of my parents residence in 19...

2009-07-25T16:24:45.449-05:00

Donaghy, I moved out of my parents residence in 1993 to enlist in the United States Marine Corps. Perhaps you should ask your partner why he so easily fell for such a story (I guess not realizing we don't have basements in Florida), and not knowing I was setting a trap to prove he was engaging in gossip?

Re: Liz, I never stated her removal had nothing to do with her support for Schneider. It's common sense that her work in the SD30 caucus was the final straw, and also shows why Tom john is the most incompetent Chair I've ever witnessed.

But what Spangle's spin leaves out is that Liz has actively worked with at least two LOP candidates against Republicans. That isn't even being disputed here.

Would anyone else allow a person in a leadership position in their party to actively support and work for a candidate in an opposing party? Incompetent chair or not, I doubt any of us would.

Regardless, I stand behind what I wrote 100%. I realize that it doesn't fully support the grand conspiracies that others would like to promote, but I can't help that. Sometimes the truth is a little more simple.

You think Brizzi feels the heat and doesn't wa...

2009-07-25T16:22:44.783-05:00

You think Brizzi feels the heat and doesn't want to get in the frying pan with his buddies?

I wonder if David Brooks and Tom John plan to puni...

2009-07-25T13:23:15.183-05:00

I wonder if David Brooks and Tom John plan to punish Carl Brizzi for failing to show up at Tuesday night's caucus to deliver an introduction of Ryan Vaughn as originally planned?

No, Art, a county chairman does not have the "...

2009-07-25T13:20:46.017-05:00

No, Art, a county chairman does not have the "right" to fire someone when the decision is because that person supported another candidate in a vacancy caucus. As members of the organization we have a right to support whoever we want. I would add that Brooks has no authority to fire anyone. He's just an area chairman...from Hamilton County no less.

God help them if they mess with Gary Welsh. It i...

2009-07-25T12:28:10.802-05:00

God help them if they mess with Gary Welsh.

It is my understanding that Tom John's job was to ensure that Mayor Ballard did not get elected and Peterson did.

These snakes are the exact thing they accuse others of being.

And as an aside, is Jacob Perry the only blogger out there siding with these self-serving liars? I find it humorous he enters the debate from his mommy's basement in Florida.

Ward Chairs are appointed by the County Chair to s...

2009-07-25T12:00:43.101-05:00

Ward Chairs are appointed by the County Chair to serve at the pleasure of the County Chair. He has the right even without a reason for making a change. Given the current chaotic shape of the sinking ship known as the Marion County Republican Party, he may have done her a favor.

So apparently the libertarians are Republican enou...

2009-07-25T11:11:42.145-05:00

So apparently the libertarians are Republican enough to "steal" Republican votes, but not Republican enough to run for office as Republicans or serve in Republican party positions.

This is why I resisted the temptation to join the GOP and serve as a precinct committeeman there, despite the encouragement of many RLC members. I would rather serve a small party that respects my choices and my liberty than serve a powerful, successful party that is authoritarian and will sabotage any member who dares to disagree with the establishment.

Wayne, I would point out that it's not that t...

2009-07-25T11:05:40.201-05:00

Wayne,

I would point out that it's not that the Marion GOP Party leaders are against conservative principles. They just don't care. They see the party organization as a tool to be used for their profit and for their friends profit. Political philosophy means nothing to them.

AI, You are right. There is a back way of removin...

2009-07-25T11:03:41.521-05:00

AI,

You are right. There is a back way of removing an elected PC, but as I recall it's pretty difficult to do. It's been awhile since I've looked at the statute and/or party rules in that regard. I have never seen an elected PC removed.

Don't count on that, Paul. They've threate...

2009-07-25T10:44:50.872-05:00

Don't count on that, Paul. They've threatened to remove me as an elected PC.

I should add that at last year's 7th District ...

2009-07-25T10:42:03.860-05:00

I should add that at last year's 7th District GOP special election caucus there was an attempt by these same party leaders to force Jon Elrod out in favor of Tom Rose, who had moved back to the U.S. from Israel after living abroad for a number of years. Mayor Ballard stood up at that caucus and told the PCs that he wouldn't participate in telling them how to vote. He thought they should reach that decision on their own without any arm-twisting from party leaders. He reversed that position 18 months later and tried to tell PCs to back Ryan Vaughn over Scott Schneider. What changed?

There is a consistency that Keltner will discover,...

2009-07-25T10:40:53.081-05:00

There is a consistency that Keltner will discover, just as sure as Ed Coleman did, as Andy Horning had, as Ron Paul had- that is, the GOP leadership is generally happy to suck up votes from libertarians, but has no interest in bringing libertarians into any meaningful place of leadership. If a libertarian wishes to be marginalized or ostracized, the GOP is a great place to receive such treatment.

AI, is exactly correct. A party organization is d...

2009-07-25T10:40:32.109-05:00

AI, is exactly correct. A party organization is designed to have the power flow from bottom to top. They want everyone to be appointed though so they can manipulate outcomes.

I once was a Republican, but the party left me yea...

2009-07-25T10:39:51.706-05:00

I once was a Republican, but the party left me years ago. When I turned 18 about fifteen years ago, I realized that they were no longer in favor of limited government, thus I could not distinguish the difference between them and the Democratic party.

As years have passed, I have seen the Libertarian party grow at an incredible pace. No longer is the party looking to slate warm bodies as candidates and have become much more professional as an organization and with Ed Coleman leaving the GOP and many others starting to question their own party brand, it's just a matter of time before the Libertarians will become a major political force in our state.

Like most middle-of-the-road Americans, I have friends from all walks of life and though we disagree on certain points, we have a mutual respect and admiration for each other. These types of friendships forge a true allegiance based upon principle rather than following a blank banner in Dante's Inferno and I believe we are now in a prime position to show the 2-party big government oligopoly and voters that they do have an alternative voice. We are now in the process of launching a huge fund raising project that will capitalize on these aspects and slice up the pie by convincing normal GOP & Democrat supporters to split their donations by giving a certain percentage to the Libertarians.

As we all know, once the money comes it, we will be afforded the opportunity to utilize the media in ways to promote limited government and also focus upon campaigns where we can stick our bull dog candidates to focus upon attacking the big government candidates from either party--even if that means we do not win the seat. The goal is to neutralize the efforts of Tom Johns and others who have worked to sever relationships with people who are a true benefit towards their organizations.

In any case, I am very appreciative towards the convictions of Liz Carlson who have shown true character and that defines leadership.

Jed, First of all, the county chairman cannot fir...

2009-07-25T10:39:13.295-05:00

Jed,

First of all, the county chairman cannot fire an elected PC.

No, the role of the GOP organization, including ward chairman which I used to be, is to support Republican candidates. They don't exist for the purpose of supporting the friends and favorites of particular party leaders in Republican caucuses. When party organizations are used that way, which is exactly what Brooks and John are doing, it destroys the free thought necessary to recruit and retain party workers.

By your measure, every appointed party worker, including many PCs who are appointed and not elected, should be canned for not supporting Ryan Vaughn, who Tom John supported. That would make a mockery out of every caucus and slating. It doesn't work that way and if the organization is used that way, the leadership needs to resign because it's destructive to our party.

These are elected PCs in question. The party doesn...

2009-07-25T10:37:39.067-05:00

These are elected PCs in question. The party doesn't want elected PCs; they only want people who are appointed and will do what they are ordered to do. The original concept of our two-party system was based on the notion that power rested at the lowest level of the organization--at the precinct level--and flowed upward, a bottom-up organizaton, not a top-down organization. I find it anethema to a democratic form of government that a small group of insiders think they should be able to meet in the backroom and decide who gets to run for office and who doesn't. This is how our judges are chosen in Marion County and you can see well that works.