Comments on Advance Indiana™: Three Star General Backs Army Officer Facing Court Martial For Refusing To Deploy To Afghanistan: Challenges Obama's Natural Born Citizen Status

Obama confirmed in one of his autobiographies his ...

2010-09-03T06:31:08.658-05:00

Obama confirmed in one of his autobiographies his grandparents' friendship with Frank Marshall Davis when they were living in Hawaii. Davis wrote in one of his books about having sex with a 15-year-old girl. Some suspect he is the one who photographed Obama's mother in the nude. I don't buy that he was Obama's real father though. If you google it, you'll also find stories speculating that Malcolm X is Obama's real father, particularly since Andy Martin is the one who started that speculation.

As an aside, if you will permit, some people think...

2010-09-02T23:40:41.866-05:00

As an aside, if you will permit, some people think that Barack's real father is Frank Marshall Davis, who at the time of his conception was already married. Abortion being illegal then, and Obama, Sr. then 40, and already with a wife in Kenya, might have been an arranged marriage.

There is an article on line, "Obama's Father and the CIA", that has photos comparing Barry to Frank to Sr Obama, at the same age, and our president's resembland to Davis is remarkable. Btw, Madsen's five chapter series on the Obamas and Durhams connection to the CIA can now be found at the On-Line Journal.

Porsche, it's a shame that you seem so content...

2010-09-02T23:18:05.112-05:00

Porsche, it's a shame that you seem so content to pick from the evil choices for president the elites serve up for you on a platter.

You could have written in Ron Paul, he serves no master but Americans and the constitution.

I stand with Ron Paul too.

2010-09-02T23:11:50.068-05:00

I stand with Ron Paul too.

@carlos . . I actually agree with you. . . However...

2010-09-02T21:43:13.126-05:00

@carlos . . I actually agree with you. . . However, as I wrote earlier "...given the state of our government and nation rather than question Obama's citizenship in an effort to undermine his authority . . ."

Undermining his authority is the underlying motivation for this kind of discussion. This is my point.

@Porsche: one can attack his policies--I know that...

2010-09-02T20:54:14.719-05:00

@Porsche: one can attack his policies--I know that I do--while @ the same question his legitimacy in certain places. Obviously, if questioning his legitimacy actually HURTS one's arguments against Pres. Obama's policies among a given audience, then one should remain mum on the subject.

Carlos, A first step would be to require candidate...

2010-09-02T18:40:10.683-05:00

Carlos, A first step would be to require candidates who file for the office of president to present evidence to support their eligibility--namely, a certified copy of their original birth certificate, not a certificate of birth, which a GAO study concluded are quite easy to forge or illegally acquire. The California Secretary of State has in the past bounced independent candidates he deemed constitutionally ineligible-(i.e., not old enough or not an NBC). The courts have affirmed his right to do it. It has never happened in the case of a major party candidate. I suspect there will be at least one state elections official in 2012 who will be bold enough to challenge Obama just for the sake of testing the issue.

@Carlos. . . support does not mean not to question...

2010-09-02T18:32:42.564-05:00

@Carlos. . . support does not mean not to question, probe, nor test the decisions of our elected officials. However, I can tell you that currently given the state of our government and nation rather than question Obama's citizenship in an effort to undermine his authority, the focus should be on his policies and leadership abilities. For me, the jury is still out on his presidency but I do think he was a better choice than McCain. And definately better than Baby Bush.

Gary, despite what the ACTUAL holding in _Wong Kim...

2010-09-02T18:19:16.712-05:00

Gary, despite what the ACTUAL holding in _Wong Kim Ark_ may be, haven't the courts essentially treated the decision as determinative with respect to what a "natural born citizen" is? You are correct that the _Wong_ Court wasn't asked to interpret Article 2, section 1, but other courts seemingly have extended the _Wong_ holding. However, I fully recognize that you are much more well-versed in immigration law than I am.

As an aside, who WOULD have standing to mount an Article 2, section 1 standing? Another candidate running for President? A state's top election official (i.e. Indiana's Sec'y of state)?

If it indeed is true that Barry was adopted by Soe...

2010-09-02T18:06:05.060-05:00

If it indeed is true that Barry was adopted by Soetoro, his abusive step-father, who is an Indonesian, then how is he also a citizen of the USA? We all know that he decided not to renew his Illinois law license, and I have concluded that he did not, because the administrators wanted to know why he signed a document under oath, that he never had or used any other names. Barack has used names other than Obama, on passports and elsewhere, and to fight this (true) accusation, he would have had to disclose records that would have been not only embarrassing, but could be determined to be fraud. Michelle also gave up her license, for similar reasons. Google it, lol.

It is the passport name problem, not the birth certificate, on which the Democrats and Obama administration do not want focus. What a fake we have in President Obama.

A century ago, President Wilson, grief stricken, declared that he had destroyed the USA, had made it into a controlled debtor nation, by supporting the creation of the phonily-named, Federal Reserve. I wish you did not feel compelled to write your last sentence, and invite you and all to stand with the Honorable Ron Paul and to call to end the fed, stop the wars, abolish the CIA, and to audit the U.S. Gold Reserves.

When I telephone Senator Luger's Indianapolis office to ask him to vote yea or nay on certain bills, the young man there usually tries to tell me how I should think. He has identified himself as, Jonathan, and last told me that never has any of Congressman Paul's bills passed. If not, great shame on his fellow so-called REPUBLICans.

No, The Supreme Court in the Wong Kim Ark decision...

2010-09-02T17:22:04.439-05:00

No, The Supreme Court in the Wong Kim Ark decision was not ask to interpret the natural born citizen language contained in the qualifications clause for president; it was asked to determine whether a child born of alien parents on American soil who had lived his entire life in the U.S. and whose parents had returned to China was a citizen. The court answered he was a citizen. That's all the court decided in that case. There's a lot of mixing up of the terms citizen, natural born and native born in dicta. Each has a distinctive meaning. Look to the actual holding.

"Support our president, support our country, ...

2010-09-02T15:43:52.282-05:00

"Support our president, support our country, and support our citizens."

porsche, the above statement scares me. Pres. Bush's supporters used such language to ram through a disastrous war, the PATRIOT Act, and the TARP. The state does not need our support; it is our fellow citizens who need us to forever be questioning, probing, and testing the state's motives.

Gary, if I read you right you posit 4 types of US ...

2010-09-02T15:41:45.257-05:00

Gary, if I read you right you posit 4 types of US citizenry:

1. Natural born = born on US soil + TWO US citizen parents

2. Native born = born on US soil

3. Naturalized citizen

4. Statutory citizen

Your contention is that the phrase "natural born citizen" in Article 2, section 1 requires a candidate for President to be born on US soil AND to be the child of TWO US citizen parents. This is the De Vattel definition.

Assuming your contention (the De Vattel position) is correct, then Pres. Obama would fail the "natural born citizen" test you provided because--while he was born on US soil in Hawaii--he is the product of only ONE US citizen parent.

I would also note that your position does seem to have some statutory support: the Naturalization Act of 1795 dropped the phrase "natural born" and stated only that only that foreign-born children of American parents shall be considered as "citizens" of the United States. The Naturalization Act of 1790 had conferred "natural born" status upon such children. A cogent argument could be made that Congress intentionally changed the language of the Act because it wanted only children born on American soil of two American parents to be able to accede to the Presidency.

I find your arguments persuasive, though I tend to believe that the _Wong Kim Ark_ framework is the current state of the law, regardless of what the Constitutional convention & Congress originally intended. I encourage you to continue posting on this matter regardless of the criticism that may be leveled against you.

I don't get it? What is so bad about Obama? ...

2010-09-02T11:12:24.153-05:00

I don't get it? What is so bad about Obama? He reminds me of Clinton - smart, polished, and a member of our nation's meritocracy.

Obama like Clinton came into office at a time when our country is struggling economically and socially. Obama like Clinton is selling "Hope", something we so desperately need in this country after the Bush presidencies - both of whom rallied for "oil grab" wars.

And where it has gotten us? Trillions of dollars of more debt and hundreds of thousands of lost lives.

I'm of the opinion there's not much difference between a republican & democrat politician except for the rhetoric.

Please move on. Support our president, support our country, and support our citizens.

Again, there are different types of citizens. Ther...

2010-09-02T10:01:07.759-05:00

Again, there are different types of citizens. There are natural born citizens (children born of US citizen parents on US soil), there are native born citizens (born on US Soil regardless of parents citizenship (14th amendment); there are naturalized citizens; and there are citizens conferred by statute, such as children of US citizens born abroad. Only natural born citizens are eligible to be president. Obama could be a U.S. citizen by virtue of being born in Hawaii, or if he was born abroad as some argue without proof, he could still be a US citizen because his mother was a US citizen and is statutorily conferred the right to have her children born abroad a US citizen. In neither case is he a natural born citizen because his father was a Kenyan. Someone raised the issue of Jews and having dual citizenship in Israel. Many American Jews don't hold Israeli ctizenship, but many others do. I would argue that you cannot serve two masters. If you are otherwise a natural born citizen but take on citizenship of another country at the same time, it poses a problem. Some have questioned whether Jewish Americans who choose to be citizens of both countries can serve as president. I think it may have been an issue with Joe Lieberman. Jewish Americans with dual citizenship are allowed to vote in both countries, and there are Jewish Americans living in Israel who vote in elections here and there from abroad. There is only one office where any of this makes any difference and that is the office of President. If you don't like the requirement, then amend the constitution. Instead, people have simply decided on their own they don't like it and have twisted the term to mean something it clearly was not intended to mean.

Do you guys really want Joe the Biden as President...

2010-09-02T06:47:06.059-05:00

Do you guys really want Joe the Biden as President and Hillary as veep?

If you bounce Obama, this is what you'll get. Joe will assume control and nominate Hillary as #2. Then, Joe will decline to run for reelection, and Hillary will slide into the top spot.

No. The source of all military authority is the Co...

2010-09-02T06:42:15.294-05:00

No. The source of all military authority is the Congress. The President merely executes what the Congress has ordered.

In the last election the two major parties did not...

2010-09-02T06:13:55.641-05:00

In the last election the two major parties did not give US citizens a legitimate choice for President since John McCain was born outside of the United States in the Panama Canal Zone.

I have this issue with your argument:

First, Obama's mother was a United States citizen. Using even the strictest "jus sanguine" standard, i.e. that nationality passes only through the mother, and if born in Hawaii then Obama passes the citizenship test.

Secondly, should one lose ones otherwise legitimate US citizenship because of a parent's actions or the laws of another nation.

For example, let's say a person is of Italian decent. There is no limit to the number of generations through which Italian citizenship jure sanguinis can be passed? According to Italian law, there is no limit, provided that your Italian ancestor was born in Italy and emigrated after 1861 and that you can produce documentation proving your lineage. So, can a person of Italian decent ever be President of the United States?

Or under Belgium law a former Belgian citizen may resume Belgian citizenship by declaration after a 12-month period of residence. Residence abroad can be equated with residence in Belgium if the person can prove genuine ties with Belgium. The conditions under which the person lost his or her Belgian nationality and the reasons for wishing to regain it will be taken into account. Children aged under 18 automatically acquire Belgian citizenship if a responsible parent resumes Belgian citizenship. So, can someone born within the US of fully naturalized US citizens be President of the United States if prior to his/her 18th birthday one of their parents decides to become Belgium again?

Finally, Israel's Law of Return grants all those of Jewish ancestry, and their spouses the right to migrate to and settle in Israel and gain citizenship. So, can a Jew be President of the United States since any Jew is an inchoate Israeli?

Gary, I still don't see how Pres. Obama (aka B...

2010-09-02T06:07:36.108-05:00

Gary, I still don't see how Pres. Obama (aka Barry Soetero) wouldn't fall under _Wong Kim Ark_. In _Wong_ BOTH of the dude's parents were non-citizens when he was born in San Fran. Yet, the _Wong_ Court decided that he did fit the definition necessary for citizenry via the 14th Amendment. With regard to Pres. Obama, there's no question that at least 1 of his parents was a U.S. citizen.

You make a good point, dscrutch. McCain's orig...

2010-09-02T06:04:43.662-05:00

You make a good point, dscrutch. McCain's original, long form birth certificate was released showing his birth at a Panamanian hospital. His grade transcripts at the Naval Academy were released. He was hammered because he had such poor grades. We know nothing about Obama's schooling other than where he attended school. He has hired scores of attorneys to block access to every school record, birth record, you name it to prevent people from learning what Americans in the normal course of events typically learn about the person they put in charge of this country. He still remains a great mystery. Fox News attempted to find classmates who attended school with him at Columbia. They called hundreds of students who had a similar major and none of them recalled him attending school there. George Stephanopolous didn't recall him attending school there, and he was at the school at the same time. A guy who went to high school with him started to give interviews to reporters and the Obama people dug up old arrest records to discredit him. Why? What is this man hiding?

Amazing the input you get on this topic, but nothi...

2010-09-02T05:38:51.419-05:00

Amazing the input you get on this topic, but nothing compared to the screeching you'd hear if a President McCain refused to disclose birth and educational records. If there's no problem, then release the records. That's the drumbeat we'd hear from major newspapers and television networks with a President McCain.

Google TellerID and you find his comments defendin...

2010-09-01T20:45:10.894-05:00

Google TellerID and you find his comments defending Obama all over the blogosphere. Yes, Melyssa, I do believe he is a paid operative--one of hundreds employed by George Soros and the massive disinformation campaign that he and foreign interests financed to affect the outcome of the 2008 elections in America. It has been proven that Obama's own online campaign finance system allowed foreigners to contribute to his campaign--the only presidential candidate in the 2008 presidential election that did not have edits/audits in the online system to prevent foreigners from illegally contributing to his campaign. The hard evidence was shown to the Omedia and they ignored the evidence. Other candidates saw their committees being subjected to incredible scrutiny by the FEC while Obama's committee got a complete pass. That is why nobody could compete with the hundreds of millions of dollars that flowed into his campaign, aside from all of the soft money spent by people like Soros to influence the election.

Gary? Do you feel there is a possibility that Tel...

2010-09-01T20:18:41.490-05:00

Gary? Do you feel there is a possibility that TellerId is being paid to post comments on blogs such as yours that post on the question of Obama's right to hold the office of POTUS?

Thanks for telling us TellerID's internet origin is Canadian.

Teller IP, incidentally, visits blogs globally to ...

2010-09-01T17:49:45.339-05:00

Teller IP, incidentally, visits blogs globally to defend Obama against challenges to his natural born citizenship status. As I've documented in the past, his IP address tracks him back to Canada. It only figures that someone outside the country would be on the front line of defending Obama.

Funny, AI, I was scanning to the bottom of the com...

2010-09-01T17:49:29.815-05:00

Funny, AI, I was scanning to the bottom of the comments wondering 'Who are these people? Never seen them before.'

Then I got to your post and had to laugh. Yeah, somebody got the word out - and here they come!