Comments on Advance Indiana™: Dungy Uses Speech To Tout Gay Marriage Ban

If anyone is interested in sending the Colts an em...

2007-03-23T09:15:00.000-05:00

If anyone is interested in sending the Colts an email here is the link:
http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=information_dynamic&id=83

Here is what I sent:

My family and I have been Colts fans for a long time but after Tony Dungy's public remarks against same-sex families during a speech he gave at the Indiana Family Institute, we will no longer be supporting the Colts.

Unfortunately, discriminatory comments made in public by Mr. Dungy do reflect on the Colts. He is in a high profile position and every time he appears in public people associate him with the Colts. Children look up to Mr. Dungy as a role model and I do not want my children being taught "hate".

Do you actually think that you do not have any gay players on your team? What message is that sending to them or perspective top players across the country who may also be gay? Good luck on your recruiting efforts.

I will also be expressing my views on this other Colts fans I know.

Nuvo recently profiled a newly-elected Republican ...

2007-03-22T09:44:00.000-05:00

Nuvo recently profiled a newly-elected Republican state representative, Jon Elrod, who expressed what I consider the most sensible perspective on this whole defense of traditional marriage thing: "When you really think about it, the reason most people have issues with gay marriage is the religious connotation . . . you really can't separate that term, 'marriage,' from its religious connotations . . .My stance has been that the state shouldn't be defining marriage, because its a religious thing. There should only be civil unions, and they should be granted irrespective of gender." It will be interesting to see if young Rep. Elrod continues to maintain this rather libertarian viewpoint after Brian Bosma, Eric Miller, et. al., have had at him for a few months.

Speaking of Eric Miller and like-minded bloviators from the far right of Christendom, we need to remind folks that marriage amendment supporters have lied through their teeth in other states, and should be expected to do the same here. I think it's sometimes called "lying for God"--which is another way of saying that the ends justify the means. Case in point: leaders of "family values" groups promoting Michigan's more hateful amendment convinced voters it was not intended to deny domestic partner benefits voluntarily extended by public or private employers. (Sound familiar?) But, once voters had approved the amendment, guess which organizations then filed suit to terminate the benefits offered by state-supported universities?

As for Coach Dungy, I agree with a view expressed several days ago in this blog that attacking the coach over this issue "will not win any public support for gay rights." The coach is, I'm sure, a good and decent man who is being faithful to what he believes. Unlike the James Dobsons and Eric Millers and Ted Haggards, Coach Dungy will reap neither power nor wealth from the support he has given to their cause. Better, if you happen to be a Believer, to "say a prayer for Tony" that he might someday come to understand that (except perhaps for Rev. Haggard) being gay or lesbian is most often NOT the "lifestyle choice" the religious right insists it is.

12:46 said: It was no different in the 60's when c...

2007-03-21T23:25:00.000-05:00

12:46 said:

It was no different in the 60's when churches and whites told blacks they were second-class, and it's no different now when the SAME groups are telling gays to sit at the back of the bus.

Please do not compare the gay rights/marriage issue to the Civil Rights Movement to obtain equlaity under the law for African-Americans, a minority group disenfranchised in this country for more than 400 years - and still catching hell today.

The level field remains unequal in many aspect for the descendants of African slaves generations later. This country was built in large part on the back of involuntary servitude.

So, now we're resorting to the tactics of our oppo...

2007-03-21T17:31:00.000-05:00

So, now we're resorting to the tactics of our opponents on this issue? Broad-brushing with ease, and kicking friends to the curb if they don't pass the litmus test? Sch shrillness draws no converts to our cause.

I'll not stop trying to convince my non-believing friends, but I won't be so shallow as to disown them over this issue alone. My God would not approve of that. My faith won't let me do it.

I'm a gay Christian who solidly opposes this hateful, Christian-based amendment. For multiple reasons. Tony Dungy supports it because he's Christian and he believes it's God's will. If he were my friend, I'd focus my arguments to him on the last post, and tell him that he and Mrs. Dungy have nothing to worry about regarding their future, thanks to Indiana law. I cannot say the same.

But if he were my friend before the SJR7 discussion, he'd not get the curb-kick.

The sooner we stop grouping everyone together, just like Eric Miller's folks constantly do, the closer Tony and his followers might listen to our arguments like the one just before this post. Solid stuff.

Let's stay focused on the facts. They are solidly on our side.

Well, 11:47, I can give you a few of reasons why t...

2007-03-21T16:36:00.000-05:00

Well, 11:47, I can give you a few of reasons why the other side of this debate doesn't react the way some of us do:

1. If Mrs. Dungy is hospitalized, Tony doesn't have to agonize in the waiting room, prohibited by privacy laws to be with her and hold her hand while she suffers.

2. If Tony passes before Mrs. Dungy does, Mrs. Dungy doesn't lose the house and have to fight with Tony's parents over all of the rest of the stuff.

3. Mr. and Mrs. Dungy don't lie awake at night worrying that their parental rights might be stripped by hateful legislation that is introduced in the Indiana State Legistlature every single session.

4. The Dungy's do not endure Queers yelling "F**ing breeders" and other hetorsexual epithets at them when they leave their favorite restaurants.

5. When the Dungy's kids were younger, their playmate's parents did not forbid their children from visiting the Dungy's house, God knows what goes on in the homes of people like that.

Do you want me to keep going? How about if I attack YOUR family and YOUR dignity?

While folks on both side have become caught up in ...

2007-03-21T15:53:00.000-05:00

While folks on both side have become caught up in the morality of SJR-7, *finally* we're looking at the business impact. Thank goodness for Cummins. Now, if more companies -- Hello, Lilly! -- will come out against it, we'll remind everyone that these anti-diversity issues hurt the state economically.

The real quetion is, anonymous, why the heck do yo...

2007-03-21T14:40:00.000-05:00

The real quetion is, anonymous, why the heck do your gay friends hang out with a homophobe like you? Believe me, if you were my "friend" you'd be kicked to the curb. I don't believe for a second you actually know anyone gay, because they wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) tolerate you treating them like sub-human beings.

mgI can like my friends who are gay and still not ...

2007-03-21T13:11:00.000-05:00

mgI can like my friends who are gay and still not approve of their efforts to redefine marriage. The two are not absolutely bound. I also have had friends who are alcoholics and drug addicts. Some of them came to those points as the result of strong family histories. Yet, I liked them nonetheless. I also have lots of friends from other political parties. I disagree with many of their public policy positions, some of which are directly related to their personal circumstances. But I still like them and get along with them.

Of course, it is YOUR hate that blinds you to such possibilities. And it is YOUR hate that blinds you from any rational discussion of these issues.

So go right ahead and let the bashing begin again. There are very reasonable questions in this debate that cannot be dismissed by your hateful characterizations of those who disagree with you. But do what you will. That's what you want anyway, isn't it? And when you're done, go re-read the last paragraph from 11:47.

If you support SJR-7, you must not think much of t...

2007-03-21T12:46:00.000-05:00

If you support SJR-7, you must not think much of the relationships of your gay friends. Is the love between two hetereosexuals better than the love between two women or two men? If you think that heterosexual love IS better, than you ARE a bigot. Put yourself in the shoes of the GLBT community and you might see where the anger comes from.

GLBT couples want equal rights under that law, not special rights. Telling law-abiding, tax-paying citizens they are second-class citizens because they are who they are is a form of hate.

It was no different in the 60's when churches and whites told blacks they were second-class, and it's no different now when the SAME groups are telling gays to sit at the back of the bus.

Gary (and others), I have noted in previous posts...

2007-03-21T11:47:00.000-05:00

Gary (and others),

I have noted in previous posts that I have had and still have several friends who are gay. Yet, I disagree with the gay community's attempts to redefine marriage and am supportive of the amendment.

As I fully expect from this post as well, those previous posts have been met with skepticism of my words and with attacks on my personality. Yet, because I remain anonymous, it is really not possible for those respondents to be characterizing me in the way that they do.

For people like Dungy, who have made public comments on this issue, the hypocrisy of your response is just really overwhelming. You and many other opponents continue to portray Dungy and others as "hateful," "gay bashing" and more. While Dungy hasn't felt this wrath (yet), the typical responses include comparisons to Hitler, Nazis and more.

Yet, despite your claims to the contrary, I have yet to see one single communication or one single comment from IFI, AFA or any others in this debate that compares in any way whatsoever to the genuine hate espoused by you and other opponents.

Frankly, you do not help your cause by this approach. All that it does is to harden those who already opposed you already. And to those of us who have tried earnestly to hear both sides, your personal attacks are making it more and more difficult to take your thoughts with any seriousness.

So go ahead and bash away, as seems to be the only pattern that I have experienced in this debate. Some day, however, I do think you will look back on these days and will realize that your actions have worked more against you than they have for you.

How is the one-sided propaganda pushed by the majo...

2007-03-21T11:06:00.000-05:00

How is the one-sided propaganda pushed by the majority of Hollywood's A-list any different than Coach Dungy speaking out for what he believes. For a group so hell bent on tolerance, you sure are quick to jump all over those who don't agree with you.

Anon 643, the problem is, our messed up society pl...

2007-03-21T07:33:00.000-05:00

Anon 643, the problem is, our messed up society places a great deal of value on what sport "heros" (cough) and celebrities say. Lots of people will listen to Dungy.

Look at all the Dem's who run around with all of Hollywood folk. In reality, an actor or actress is just someone who can spit out lines with some feeling but are granted some sort of platform when they open their mouth on any issue. Why is their thoughts more important than mine (or yours)?

Why get bent out of shape over the postition of a ...

2007-03-21T06:43:00.000-05:00

Why get bent out of shape over the postition of a jock? It's just his opinion, nothing more.