Comments on Advance Indiana™: Gay Tolerance Demonstration Leads To Lockdown Of New Castle High School

"Most Christians do not feel it necessary to use t...

2007-04-20T21:10:00.000-05:00

"Most Christians do not feel it necessary to use the law to compel others to follow their beliefs. They live out their beliefs and others see that inner life manifested in their works."

The law will reflect someone's worldview (belief system). It is just a matter of whose beliefs the law represents. Our country's laws are based on a Judeo-Christian ethic. It is only in the last few decades that those ethics have been chipped away at by secular humanists. Sometimes, merely living out one's beliefs, and keeping them to oneself, is not enough to stop evil from taking over in this world.

The laws need to be based on something that is unchanging, and above men--like God's word. Otherwise, our sense of morality is based on the changing winds of political correctness.

"Have GLBT students been harassed and abused over time? Hard to argue no. Do they have a right to free speech? Yes, just like those who disagree. Do those who dislike gays have the right o verbally or physically abuse them in the name of free speech? NO."

There are two points to be made in regard to those comments. First, no one is talking about disliking gays. We are talking about disagreeing with the lifestyle. Second, no one is suggesting they be verbally or physically abused. But when you talk about verbal abuse, that is where you get into a gray area. Some people say that merely voicing the opinion that homosexuality is immoral constitutes verbal abuse. And that is where the danger lies. That is where we start to become a facist, Nazi-like state. Whatever happened to, "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it"? These days it's, "If you disagree with what I say, you are a hateful, homophobic bigot!"

2007-04-20T20:54:00.000-05:00

This comment has been removed by the author.

Most Christians do not feel it necessary to use th...

2007-04-20T10:07:00.000-05:00

Most Christians do not feel it necessary to use the law to compel others to follow their beliefs. They live out their beliefs and others see that inner life manifested in their works.

Have GLBT students been harassed and abused over time? Hard to argue no. Do they have a right to free speech? Yes, just like those who disagree. Do those who dislike gays have the right o verbally or physically abuse them in the name of free speech? NO.

Jeff, thanks for the compliments. I must be doing ...

2007-04-19T16:34:00.000-05:00

Jeff, thanks for the compliments. I must be doing something properly to have generated such an interest from you. As far as you classifying my political views, you couldn't be further from the truth, but as Wilson has proven these days, it's not like Democrats know how to have a proper political discussion without first attempting to classify/attack an opposing viewpoint as coming from someone in the "far-right" category.

Would it clarify things if I mentioned that I voted for Clinton...twice?

Gary, your closing comment confused me a bit, though admittedly that may not take much:

"Most Christians don't subscribe to your views, Scribe."

Which views do most Christians not subscribe to? That we are all sinners? That we are commanded to love the sinner and hate the sin? Help me out a bit here, otherwise I'm thinking that was just an attempt at a backhanded slap.

Anonymous 8:15...priceless. Keep taking comedy lessons from Wilson, it's appears to finally be paying off.

I'm pretty sure this 'newcomer' is the same old ti...

2007-04-19T15:59:00.000-05:00

I'm pretty sure this 'newcomer' is the same old tired harridan that has been dogging LGBT folk for years now.

Holy Homophobe Batman! I think you're right! I missed that one.

It just wouldn't be any fun without people like Jocelyn ranting and raving would it?

"fiercely denies equating the gay civil rights str...

2007-04-19T15:30:00.000-05:00

"fiercely denies equating the gay civil rights struggle with the African-American civil rights struggle"

I don't know if you are just living in a fantasy world that is totally detached from reality, or if you are just out and out spewing propaganda that you know is false.

Wilson, it sounds like you think there is only one...

2007-04-19T15:28:00.000-05:00

Wilson, it sounds like you think there is only one person in the world who would hold a view different from yours?! How arrogant! You must not get around to any other blogs, because there are a lot of people who post on my side of this debate. There are even more who are afraid to speak up (the silent majority) because hate mongers like yourself have cowed them with your vitriolic name calling.

You can say whatever you want about my identity. But it's just another tactic your side uses--attack the person so you don't have to debate the issue.

Isn't it peculiar that a brandnew pseudonym pops u...

2007-04-19T15:14:00.000-05:00

Isn't it peculiar that a brandnew pseudonym pops up in here fiercely using the Bible to attack gayness - and also fiercely denies equating the gay civil rights struggle with the African-American civil rights struggle. Both the content of its comments and the writing style somehow remind me of another homobigot that stalks the blogs with a myriad of fake names just like she does in real life: Jocelyn WhatsHerName Tandy! I'm pretty sure this 'newcomer' is the same old tired harridan that has been dogging LGBT folk for years now.

"people are in a hopeless argument with a fundie w...

2007-04-19T14:26:00.000-05:00

"people are in a hopeless argument with a fundie who has it all figgered out"

I don't have it all figured out, but I have enough of it figured out to know homosexuality is wrong. The Bible is pretty clear on that.

Glad you're here, Jeff! It's too bad that you aren...

2007-04-19T14:24:00.000-05:00

Glad you're here, Jeff! It's too bad that you aren't getting anything out of the discussion, and feel it necessary to call people names.

Funny, I keep coming back to this thread where peo...

2007-04-19T14:16:00.000-05:00

Funny, I keep coming back to this thread where people are in a hopeless argument with a fundie who has it all figgered out. It's like passing that wreck where you just can't stop yourself from looking...

You're funny, Donna. But since you don't believe i...

2007-04-19T13:37:00.000-05:00

You're funny, Donna. But since you don't believe in the God of the Bible, I'd prefer you didn't pray for me. I don't know what your beliefs are, but they are certainly not biblical if you think homosexuality is OK.

"'Every bit of medical and genetic evidence indica...

2007-04-19T13:35:00.000-05:00

"'Every bit of medical and genetic evidence indicates that no such thing exists.' This statement is a lie."

Simply saying a statement is a lie does not mean it is. You need to back up your claim with credible research. You're in the big league now, dude. If you want to be taken seriously, you're going to need to do better than that. What is your evidence that people are "born gay"?

activist 1:22, all hope for you is fleeting. You ...

2007-04-19T13:31:00.000-05:00

activist 1:22, all hope for you is fleeting. You totally miss the point. We'll pray for you.

"It is a small band of fundamentalists who are wed...

2007-04-19T13:22:00.000-05:00

"It is a small band of fundamentalists who are wedge-whacking this issue for political gain."

You're wrong about that.

"The group promoting today's demonstration is a far-right funded group which has been leading the drive to get constitutional amendments adopted in every state."

First of all, if you call a group who submits to the God of the Bible as their authority far-right, then I guess they are. Second, you have just unknowingly contradicted yourself by mentioning the amendment. 27 out of 28 states that have had a vote on the amendment have approved it, which disproves your contention that it is just a "small band of fundamentalists" who are against same-sex "marriage".

"I grew up in a Methodist Church. I cannot recall a single occasion when the minister preached on the subject of homosexuality in all those years."

Sadly, many churches don't preach about homosexuality, or any other sin, for that matter. I would not expect to hear strong biblical teaching at a Methodist church, especially if it is United Methodist.

"The fire and brimstone teachings are practiced by a minority of Christians."

Yes, sadly, many preachers preach a feel-good message, rather than the whole counsel of God.

For I have not 6shunned to declare to you fthe whole counsel of God.
The New King James Version. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1982, S. Ac 20:27

When Jesus started his ministry, He did not offer a feel-good, welcoming, come-as-you-are-and-you'll-be-accepted message. He said,

From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
The New King James Version. Nashville : Thomas Nelson, 1982, S. Mt 4:17

That sounds kinda "fire and brimstone" to me!

"Most Muslims don't subscribe to the teachings of the extremist Talibans, Shiites, etc. They can criticize their actions without being anti-Muslim."

In most Muslim countries, you wouldn't be alive if the government knew you were practicing sodomy.

"Most Christians don't subscribe to your views,"

Wrong (see above comment about marriage amendment).

Maybe, Donna, but I'd argue that statement more re...

2007-04-19T11:46:00.000-05:00

Maybe, Donna, but I'd argue that statement more refers to the "traditional moral viewpoint" part. Sure, most Christians probably fall under that category. But there are many who don't, and likely participated in the Day of Silence (I'd never even heard of either of these days before). The Christian (and anyone else) kids should have the right to disagree. Even if you find someone's viewpoint reprehensible, you can't just muzzle them because you disagree.

"The idea was to allow an opportunity for Christia...

2007-04-19T10:19:00.000-05:00

"The idea was to allow an opportunity for Christian students and those who adhere to a traditional moral viewpoint ... to respectfully present their side of the issue," Johnson said. "What we've found is typically it's the Christian kids who are being censored in their speech so that's why this is being created for them."

I find this statement by Mike Johnson of the Alliance Defense Fund troubling. I believe he is insinuating that no Christian students participated in the "Day of Silence".

"scribe is a gutless, coward hiding in anononymity...

2007-04-19T10:07:00.000-05:00

"scribe is a gutless, coward hiding in anononymity."

I don't know if you wrote this as a joke, or if you are totally incapable of seeing the hypocrisy in your statement, due to the fact that you post on here anonymously! Of course, I shouldn't be surprised. Liberals are, in general, hypocrites and think that the rules only apply to those with whom they disagree, never to them.

"'homobigot', as in 'Jocelyn Tandy'"

Sorry, I don't understand that reference.

"American Association of Psychologists, AMA, they ...

2007-04-19T10:03:00.000-05:00

"American Association of Psychologists, AMA, they all say the same thing, but these clowns won't listen to sound medical and scientific evidence and conclusions."

You forgot to mention that the reason the APA changed their position on homosexuality is because homosexual activists threatened to disrupt their annual meeting every year until they did. Their decision was a political, not scientific, one. If you clowns did your homework you would know that. You can't assume that a supposedly "scientific" organization always makes decisions based on science. Almost everything is politicized these days.

Max:"Hey Activist, gays have been murdered, beaten...

2007-04-19T09:56:00.000-05:00

Max:

"Hey Activist, gays have been murdered, beaten, shunned by their families and churches, denied housing and been fired from their jobs simply because they were born gay."

First of all, I don't accept that anyone is "born gay". There is not a shred of scientific evidence to support that. And other people have endured the same things as you described, for other reasons, or no reason. You don't hear about the heterosexuals who are beat up by gays. And these days, a person is more likely to be fired or disciplined for disagreeing with their employer's homosexual-affirming policies than a person is for being gay.

There is no widespread discrimination against homosexuals. Society is becoming more and more accepting of homosexuals, not less. So, why the push all of a sudden for all of these "gay rights" laws? Because homosexual activists are relentless, and will not be satisfied until they have it all. This includes enshrining homosexuality through same-sex "marriage" and silencing any last remnant of dissent from the Church.

"Your post alone shows the ignorance and contempt that we hear on a daily basis. We have our own "wagon" baby. This ain't a p***ing match about who got treated worse."

I'm not talking about who gets treated worse. Those on your side are the ones who are making the analogy to the African American civil rights struggle, and it is pure propaganda. And, now that people have started rejecting that argument, a lot of homosexual activists have taken it up a notch and are now trying to use the Nazi analogy, which is even more lame and desperate.

"It is ALL bigotry.....and it is ALL wrong."

It is NOT bigotry to believe that the homosexual lifestyle is wrong. I've seen more hatred, bigotry, and intolerance from your side of the argument than I have ever seen from Christians. Further, those of your ilk can never have a discussion of the issue. You always have to resort to emotional arguments and name calling. It doesn't sound very intelligent to call someone ignorant because they disagree with you. If you can't make a case for your position without bringing in emotion and name calling, maybe you should leave it to someone who can.

In my comment above, when describing Scribe's use ...

2007-04-19T09:01:00.000-05:00

In my comment above, when describing Scribe's use of far right terminology, I should have written "educated people with whom he disagrees are called elitist. I suspect Scribe is an educated person himself.

I've read some of Scribe's stuff, he is proficient...

2007-04-19T08:55:00.000-05:00

I've read some of Scribe's stuff, he is proficient in the language of the extreme right that his successfully hijacked the Republican party (moderate Republicans are RINO's, educated people are "elitist" and so on).

I abandoned the Republican party some time ago because of people like him, not because the Democrats had all that much appeal (I now consider myself to be Independent and I don't see that changing).

Scribe and people like him are the reason the Dems are gaining ground and the Republicans are losing it. If you are a die-hard Democrat, you would be wise to encourage him to keep up the good work.

scribe is a gutless, coward hiding in anononymity....

2007-04-19T08:15:00.000-05:00

scribe is a gutless, coward hiding in anononymity.

Scribe, Don't try to obfuscate the issue by trying...

2007-04-19T08:13:00.000-05:00

Scribe, Don't try to obfuscate the issue by trying to turn my criticsm into an anti-Christian thing. It is a small band of fundamentalists who are wedge-whacking this issue for political gain. The group promoting today's demonstration is a far-right funded group which has been leading the drive to get constitutional amendments adopted in every state. I grew up in a Methodist Church. I cannot recall a single occasion when the minister preached on the subject of homosexuality in all those years. The fire and brimstone teachings are practiced by a minority of Christians. Most Muslims don't subscribe to the teachings of the extremist Talibans, Shiites, etc. They can criticize their actions without being anti-Muslim. Most Christians don't subscribe to your views, Scribe.

Gary, your anti-Christian hysteria makes me think ...

2007-04-19T08:04:00.000-05:00

Gary, your anti-Christian hysteria makes me think that you are having misgivings regarding your own sexual preferences and this is manifested in self-loathing that requires you to constantly write trash attacking Christians and their viewpoints.

It's sad to me that a man who has spent so much of his career fighting for tolerance and diversity in viewpoints has become a bitter bigot himself, intolerant to any disagreeing or contrary viewpoint.

What anti-Christian bigots like yourself, Wilson and the majority of the Democrat__ Party miss is that the Christian viewpoint isn't one of intolerance and hate (and the story you quote doesn't seem to contain one hateful or discriminatory comment from the Christians quoted). It's about loving the sinner, but hating the sin.

Gary, if you believe that people who believe homosexuality is a lifestyle and a choice are acting from hate, why do you choose to use hate and bigotry yourself in opposing that viewpoint?