Comments on Advance Indiana™: Plowman Trial Evidence Shows The Sleazy Side Of Indianapolis Zoning

Gary, I do a lot of real estate cases, but have n...

2011-09-08T20:17:56.013-05:00

Gary,

I do a lot of real estate cases, but have never had to seek a zoning variance. I still don't buy a $20K retainer, though I admit for an adult establishment downtown would be a much more difficult project and more expensive. But the poster suggested that a $20,000 retainer was common for a zoning variance case. I'm not buying that.

The poster also talked about $5K in filing fees for the zoning variance. Now that I know is complete BS. I talked to attorneys and they were completely in agreement that there would not be $5K in filing fees for a zoning variance. Not even close.

You're right...I would have enjoyed that exchange.

You would have enjoyed this exchange, Paul. At one...

2011-09-08T17:53:18.935-05:00

You would have enjoyed this exchange, Paul. At one point when the undercover agent was talking to Plowman about attorneys, he complained about how he got strung out by another zoning attorney somewhere else that kept running up the bill on him. In the end, he spent $60,000 and had nothing to show for it. He did a great job acting out his distrust of lawyers. The prosecutor stopped the tape and asked him to assure him that was just his character and that he really didn't feel that way about attorneys. The whole courtroom erupted with laughter.

At another point, Plowman was telling the agent about the Classy Chassis on the southside being for sale. When Plowman told him it was next to the Flying J truck stop, the agent said he wasn't interested in it because he didn't want a joint that attracted truck drivers; he wanted a more classy joint. During jury selection, one of the questions asked of jurors was whether they had worked as a truck driver. I thought it was odd they were asking that question and an unusual number in the jury pool turned out to be truck drivers or former truck drivers. They were summarily dismissed as potential jurors.

Have you handled any zoning cases, Paul? I haven&#...

2011-09-08T15:29:43.508-05:00

Have you handled any zoning cases, Paul? I haven't so I can't say for certain one way or the other. I always had the impression commercial clients are charged at much higher rates than what persons dealing with residential matters are charged because they can afford to pay more and there's a lot more on the line money wise with the decision. Everything an adult establishment does costs more because there are generally always complicating factors associated with their matters that don't come up in your run of the mill zoning case.

Nonya, Show me an attorney who regularly charges ...

2011-09-08T14:51:12.329-05:00

Nonya,

Show me an attorney who regularly charges a $20K fee in a zoning variance case and I'll buy you a case of your favorite beverage.

Don't piss on me and try to convince me it's raining. Been around too long for that.

It makes me so sad to read what this exchange tell...

2011-09-08T13:07:52.040-05:00

It makes me so sad to read what this exchange tells us about Lincoln's abuse of power, his greed and lowlife behavior. Why did the federal government target him? Was it because this was not the first time he was guilty of such graft, such corrupt behavior? How many others on the Council and Boards are like him?

Paul, how many zoning cases have you done? Find a...

2011-09-08T13:00:37.758-05:00

Paul, how many zoning cases have you done?

Find a zoning attorney in town (who has done more than five zoning cases). Ask them how many hours an easy zoning case costs to file, prepare and present. If 1 of them tells you less than 10 hours, I'll buy you a case of your favorite beverage.

Plus, the filing fees (which usually come out of a retainer) for such a case could be in the $5,000 range pretty easily.

As the wrestler The Rock used to say: "Know your role".

The money might be used to lubricate and fuel the ...

2011-09-08T12:10:01.191-05:00

The money might be used to lubricate and fuel the BS machine that is wheeled into the zoning hearings and turned on as soon as the attorney starts speaking.

You'd be lucky to get 10 hours in on a varianc...

2011-09-08T09:31:07.070-05:00

You'd be lucky to get 10 hours in on a variance case. That's $2,000 an hour. And he said he might require more?

We attorneys are prohibited from keeping retainer fees that are not earned by billing. What is all that money being used for?

The agent said Cam told him that was just the init...

2011-09-08T06:26:10.438-05:00

The agent said Cam told him that was just the initial retainer; it could cost even more. If he charged that much for his zoning work, then why the hell is he working as an attorney for DNR now? I think he's got Charlie White's old job.

Corruption is as corruption does. -Machine politi...

2011-09-08T04:55:40.243-05:00

Corruption is as corruption does.

-Machine politics.

Technically he still has to actually earn that $20...

2011-09-07T23:45:40.731-05:00

Technically he still has to actually earn that $20,000 retainer. If he doesn't bill the time, he has to give the balance back. Ha, ha...that's the way it's supposed to work.

Seriously, a $20K retainer on a zoning case???

Wow ! That's riveting reporting, Gary. Thank ...

2011-09-07T23:06:40.588-05:00

Wow ! That's riveting reporting, Gary. Thank you.

I had no idea that a simple zoning would require a $20,000 retainer. Its not hard to win a zoning or variance. I'm sure it makes the lawyers look like they are the best thing since sliced bread, but hey, well over 91% of all variances that went through the system in 2009 were granted. In 2004, the year I pulled all the MDC records, 95% of the petitions that made it to the MDC were approved. Tough job being a zoning attorney in Indy ;o). So, a $20,000 retainer make soooo much sense.

And the description of board shopping - we all knew it goes on. Now we have an insider instructing someone on exactly how it is done. That's as close to proof as we will ever get.

Keep up the good work.